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FOG? Sigh.
The Darklady's succinct post was that I get lost in form and forget function. Hmmm. My journal entry does seem to have gone there. My last journal entry does seem to be more about the form, the Friends of Grim, than allowing me to buy a clue, the function. I do surround myself with a myriad of strong friends from different subcultures, and I understand this opportunity for those friends who chose to comment to mingle and communicate was irresistible.
Well. Let me summarize the last 39 posts. Using chaos as a shield and as a weapon to end burdensome relationships, and also chi to abuse power dynamics is something I can use and consider. Perhaps the silk is too tight around the iron. I am not unhappy with anyone, and I asked for this, and there is no need for anger or apologies or permission. All of my friends have honor in their way, and their own perspectives including grief, loss, love, and anger still allow me to learn from them, even when I have not spoken to them in some time. This is not the first time I have been gifted with the concept of Chaos.
Nericksx wrote, "As to the quagmire that poor Grim's LJ has become: strangely, this forum has become about the the posters (for some) and not the postee. In everyone's defense, Grim asked for it. Whether you feel it is right or wrong to take him up on it is another matter. I doubt anyone here (most CERTAINLY not me) would have the courage to take off one's armor and hand out rocks. If Grim wants his LJ community to oblige him in creating a digital gauntlet, who are we to deny him that? I think that as long the insight is kept reasonably general (no, "remember that time back in '97 when you said....") and done in a true spirit of helpfulness and caring, then it can be nothing but positive, if hard to take."
Those who really know me well know that I am trying to rest my Warrior Self, and my armour has been used up for some time, and not yet replaced. Yet, the analogy fits. Gauntlet? Nope. That means I'm running away. I'm going to stand here, again without judgment or comment.
Throw rocks.
Well. Let me summarize the last 39 posts. Using chaos as a shield and as a weapon to end burdensome relationships, and also chi to abuse power dynamics is something I can use and consider. Perhaps the silk is too tight around the iron. I am not unhappy with anyone, and I asked for this, and there is no need for anger or apologies or permission. All of my friends have honor in their way, and their own perspectives including grief, loss, love, and anger still allow me to learn from them, even when I have not spoken to them in some time. This is not the first time I have been gifted with the concept of Chaos.
Nericksx wrote, "As to the quagmire that poor Grim's LJ has become: strangely, this forum has become about the the posters (for some) and not the postee. In everyone's defense, Grim asked for it. Whether you feel it is right or wrong to take him up on it is another matter. I doubt anyone here (most CERTAINLY not me) would have the courage to take off one's armor and hand out rocks. If Grim wants his LJ community to oblige him in creating a digital gauntlet, who are we to deny him that? I think that as long the insight is kept reasonably general (no, "remember that time back in '97 when you said....") and done in a true spirit of helpfulness and caring, then it can be nothing but positive, if hard to take."
Those who really know me well know that I am trying to rest my Warrior Self, and my armour has been used up for some time, and not yet replaced. Yet, the analogy fits. Gauntlet? Nope. That means I'm running away. I'm going to stand here, again without judgment or comment.
Throw rocks.
Element or alloy?
(Anonymous) 2005-04-26 07:02 am (UTC)(link)Taking this metaphor in a slightly different direction, I would suggest that iron is not the right material to strive for. It is an element, brittle and easily breaks. To seek to become iron is to seek to become a single thing which leaves you more vulnerable than seeking to become steel, an alloy. Add other elements to your iron in order to strengthen yourself.
I am proud of you for asking from this feedback and for not running away. I knew you had it within you to take a good hard look at yourself -- I just wasn't sure you would ever do it. I hope you will have the courage to change your life for the better.
Aria
no subject
And I think Aria makes a good point about iron and steel. As long as I've known you, you've been simplifying. While that is good, as pruning dead branches from a vine is good, be careful not to go too far and weaken yourself. The alloy is stronger than the element.
On a positive note though...
I just thought it was funny
That was conclusion number one.
Conclusion number 2 is that there are a lot of people who care about you (and a lot of people I think who feel like they want more of you).
And still I say, cut yourself some slack. From one perfectionist to another, working so hard at being perfect, at doing things perfectly will only tire you out so you can't do anything right at all. Lean one others. Let yourself be human. Surrender instaed of fighting.
And stop insisting that I'll get angry at you or I'll kick your karate-doing ass.
PS. I apologize for my lack of tack and eloquency in this crowd. You are all very well-spoken, and I'm a bit hot-headed.
Circles
The funny thing is that with Grim only having time to have 1/2 relationships, some of us don't get to spend enough time with him to get to know about his other friends and communities. I think that I am not being too bold when I say that I may be one of the people here who has known him the longest (12 years) and yet sometimes I feel that I know him the least. Honestly, I don't feel that it is asking way too much to ask that Grim actually be 50% of the friendship. After his divorce, he said that he was going to cut back on a lot of commitments and simplify. Well, he just dropped some commitments and replaced them with others - still the same amount of time and energy being exerted.
Honestly, I am uncomfortable at being told how to be Grim's friend, by another FOG. Aurora, I know it is being done with much love, but I feel that you are setting yourself up as the bridge troll that the rest of us have to correctly answer questions of, to cross over to be Grim's friend. Perhaps I'm way off base on this, perhaps Grim needs a bridge troll? (Not to imply that you are at all troll-like in actuality ;-) ) I just read your reply to the "two more tiny cents" and it sounds like you and Grim are having discussions surrounding your feelings for him. This sounds good. Grim also sent email to us "broccoli" friends and we shall also have the oppertunity to have chats him Grim, about whether he is too busy to be our friend. If that is the case, that would make me very very sad. I am the type of person who has a very few, very close friends. Basically, save for Kiwi who was in Bend, they were all present when the Little Dude was born - that included Grim. What that means that is that since I don't have my friendships spread so very thin, I put a lot into maintaining the friendships I have. If it turns out that someone who I think of as a very close friend turns out to only think of me as a fond aquaintance - well, that would suck ass.
*Puts down rock, picks up Nerf ball* It's just supposed to get your attention, not actually cause damage. No armour needed for Nerf play, anyway.
On an aside, about this whole armour thing - Grim, I hope you don't feel like you have to have armour up around this crowd. I have literally devoted almost an entire day to this briar patch/LJ (and believe me, it isn't like I don't have other things to do), which shows how much the RWB and I care about you. I know others here have done the same. Perhaps it is good that your armour is totally toasted, so that you'll have no choice but to go around all squshy parts to the world and see that armour is not needed as often as you think.
Ack! No! Not looking for a Bridge Troll position...
past 24 hours been compared to a Jaguar, and a Troll... interesting combination LOL
*returning to my own battlefield clean up now*
Best wishes Grim dear... your in good hands I hope this gives ya what you are needing :)
Re: Ack! No! Not looking for a Bridge Troll position...
Thanks for everyone's input, and good luck to Grim. May they always be Nerf balls.
- Nericksx
Re: Ack! No! Not looking for a Bridge Troll position...
But I think all of FOG need to stop being so demanding, and realize who frickin many of us there really are... and figure out why we are all so darn in love with ya, and why some of us are so darn needy... and all be our own Knights, and not all expect you to be for us.
I’m responding to your apology because I want to make sure and convey that I understand you already said you were not fully awake when you posted this. But as someone who you don’t know (at least not that I’m aware of) and someone who commented towards our lovely Grim about this subject I really wanted to clarify some things.
I’m really uncomfortable with being described as feeling hurt, loss or anger over not having had the opportunity to get as close to Grim as I desire(d). We, umm, connected on more than one level a few times and I wouldn’t be surprised if that doesn’t happen again in the future. Or, maybe it won’t. But if it doesn’t, I’ll still cherish the few times we did connect as the gem that they are. Grim is not the first person I’ve had these fantastic experiences with that were a product of the moment never to be had again, and I’m sure he won’t be the last. But each is precious in their own, whether they can be duplicated again or not. I’m fairly confident that Grim understands that, or at least I hope that if he doesn’t he contacts me so I can explain it to him.
I just really wanted to have it understood that expressing my comments was not because of any sour feelings on my part but because I could recognize the pattern that others were describing where Grim would express a desire to pursue closeness or even begin pursuing closeness and then with no explanation stop. I have some thoughts on why that occurs but these are not things I’m willing to share here since at the moment I don’t feel that this is a warm and accepting place for thoughts or constructive criticism, not from Grim but from the other readers.
Grim – Now that I think about it I think I will try and contact you sometime in the near future because after writing this and with everything going on for us each individually I’m feeling that I maybe need to touch base with you personally. If I don’t hear from you regarding a good time and place I may very well be presumptuous and just call you. :P
From the BF, (part 1)
This seems like an appropriate metaphore...
(Anonymous) 2005-04-28 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)By Reverend Wing F. Fing, M.D., Ph.D., D.D.S., L.L.D., D.V.D., and much, much, more!
We have all seen butterflies dancing in the air.
They bounce from flower to flower in gardens and meadows
And we have all noticed what happens when a person walks up to a butterfly. The butterfly flies away. It flees.
Why?
It does that because it’s afraid. It’s afraid of getting hurt.
But rocks are different.
When you approach a rock, what happens? What does it do?
It just sits there.
Yes, you’ve probably noticed that the vast majority of rocks refuse to flee when you walk up to them.
With these things in mind, you might someday want to spend a few hours watching rocks and butterflies. Almost certainly you’ll see the vast differences between them. For instance, butterflies seem to spend most of their time trying to escape from things. They fear people, birds, lizards, spiders, dogs, cats, frogs, and snakes.
(And some people, you may have noticed, are afraid of these same things.)
(And, oddly, these same things are often afraid of people.)
(But hardly anything is afraid of a butterfly.)
As for rocks, on the other hand; birds, lizards, spiders, dogs, cats, frogs, people and snakes all fail to cause fear in their stony hearts. Rocks are brave.
Why is that?
Where do rocks get their courage?
It comes from their humility.
Yes. Rocks as a group have shed themselves of all their pride. You can search high and low, and here and there, but you’ll have difficulty finding a proud rock. They refuse to view themselves as important things. It matters very little to them whether people throw them, or whether crawling things crawl on them. Whatever happens they just continue to do their best to cope with anything that happens to them.
Try this experiment sometime: go out in the garden, find a rock and pee on it.
Does it care?
Of course it cares, but very little. Getting pee-ed on is just one more thing a rock has to deal with. A rock takes life as it comes.
Now think of butterflies. Butterflies actually believe they’re important. That’s why they’re always fearful, always feeling that it would be a great tragedy if something “bad” was to happen to them.
Try to pee on a butterfly.
See what happens?
You have to chase it all around the garden trying to get it wet.
That’s a difficult task for man or woman. Particularly a woman.
Why does a butterfly make life so difficult?
Why does it flee?
Because it refuses to accept your insulting actions, that’s why. It’s full of pride.
continued...
Re: This seems like an appropriate metaphore... part 2
(Anonymous) 2005-04-28 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)What happens?
Very little.
But then… sit on a butterfly.
What happens?
The butterfly feels crushed. It’s so humiliated it refuses to move. It just lies there refusing to even look like a healthy butterfly anymore.
Of course, some people will say that this is a stupid experiment. Most people believe butterflies are delicate, easily wounded things, while rocks are hard and tough to break. These people, of course, expect that if you sit on a butterfly it will dies, and expect that sitting on a rock will change it very little.
But let me ask you this, if that’s what you believe: what happens when a butterfly stays still and lets you sit on it?
It becomes a rock, that’s what.
How can that be?
I wish I could tell you.
That’s just the way it happens.
It’s a miracle.
Butterflies flee: that’s their nature, the way they are. Rocks stay still: that’s they way they are. So if the butterfly stays still while some big ass is coming down on it, then the butterfly changes into a rock.
Like I said, it’s a miracle, and it actually happens, although you might find that hard to believe.
Maybe this will help you believe it: remember that once upon a time that butterfly was a caterpillar, a type of little worm that crawled slowly along the ground. Then, it changed into a beautiful thing that could fly, could dance on the breeze. Well, that’s one miracle, and I bet you’d have a hard time explaining exactly how that happens.
It’s the same with me. I’ve seen butterflies change into rocks merely by sitting there, by refusing to be afraid. They lose their pride, and then they are rocks. All I can say about how it happens is that it’s a miracle.
And it rarely happens.
Most butterflies fail.
They are full of fear.
Pride, remember, is just another form of fear.
A great deal of energy is wasted being fearful, wasted by refusing to take life as it comes. But the truth is: we creatures of the earth have only a limited amount of energy, so we pay dearly if we waste it. The butterfly darts here and there, always suspicious, always watching out for danger. By doing this it wastes its vital energy. On the other hand, rocks just sit there saving their energy. That is why rocks live forever, and butterflies die so young.
From Yet Another Anonymous, Yon Anon, who you once called friend, but did not act like a friend toward. Perhaps it is time to stop hanging out with butterflies Grim...?
The BF speaks (part 1)
I agree that your journal is yours and you can post what you want. If people judge it, that's their issue. However, I also agree that you use it to your advantage as a forum to both gather and provide information, both clearly and cryptically. I know this because I do the same thing with my live journal. I agree that it's a place where people can "fawn all over you" (or offer you support and validation). Also it's a place where people can offer you criticism, as you've seen in the past couple of weeks.
Enough about the journal. Here are my observations:
You look at the world through the template of a power dynamic. I remember when you first introduced this concept to me. You said - if power were on one end of a continuum and control were on the other, where would you be on that continuum, and what would it take for you to give up some of one to move toward the other? I asked for clear definitions of power and control. You explained power is creating change, and control is keeping things the same. I soon realized I am on the control end and you're on the power end. You're *WAY* out there on the power end. This fostered in me a futile sense of competition, like you had the corner of the market on power and I would never get to where you are, at least not without a lot of work. I have since learned that you can be on either end of the spectrum, although you prefer to hang out on the power end, even when you're demonstrating a large amount of control. I guess for you the middle ground is kind of shaky - you prefer to be on one end or the other. Or, maybe it's more like a balance beam - in every relationship, there's someone with more power and someone with more control. I started looking at many things in my life with this dynamic, and it was quite an eye-opener for me. So there's that.
Another observation about you - you put 100% into everything you do. Well, almost everything. The times I've seen you get a bad attitude about some obligation, I've pointed out to you that your source of stress is that you are a 100% person, and for the thing that you have an attitude about, you're giving much less than that. If you can't give it 100%, it's not worth doing. This can be a good thing, except, as I pointed out in the case of your coworkers, you're dealing with people who operate at a steady 80% (or whatever variable). I notice you tend to choose friends, at least the closer ones, who give much closer to the 100% level. The ones that skate by at 80% or less eventually aren't worth your time. This can cause an 80% person to perceive you as condescending, when really you're just functioning on a different level than that person. (BTW, I'm not talking about anyone in your LJ who's posted to this thread... this is completely about you, and I'm choosing to post it here because I think you'd like to keep it here (as a record) and because some of your friends might find some value and insight in it).
The BF speaks (part 2)
You often take the 'client confidentiality' thing way too far. I completely understand and respect this as it relates to your work - it's absolutely essential and I wholeheartedly respect the example you set in this area, how important it is to you. However, in your personal life, there are some situations where a little disclosure could prevent misunderstandings. Sometimes you're vague when you don't need to be. This diminishes trust in relationships. Once I discovered this about you, I learned that if I wanted to know more details, I had to ask you. I either had to trust that you were telling me only what I needed to know, or risk overstepping my bounds by asking you something that may be none of my business. I know now that my fear of overstepping my bounds with you is my own, and that if I do, you will clearly and firmly let me know.
Which brings me to another point. You are very gentle in your personal interactions with others. You listen, and offer validation and support. However, when it comes to expressing how *you* feel, you are sometimes not clear. You strive for balance (you Libra, you!) between being gentle and being clear. Sometimes you are so gentle you are not clear, or you are quite clear but not very gentle.
Something k said in her response to you helped me formulate a concept that's been brewing in my mind since we first started hanging out together - since the AOR Conference in Eugene. To paraphrase, she said something about 1) unique, un-recreatable experiences with you, and 2) an illusion of the depth of a relationship with you. Add this to the concept in my head and I would call it the 'celebrity factor'. I remember the picture of us at the conference, and have often thought that the expression on your face, your presence there - it seemed to me that either I was posing with a celebrity for the picture, or you were.
My point is, you have this larger-than-life essence, which draws people to you. You love people being drawn to you - you get all kinds of attention for it. You create beautiful once-in-a-lifetime experiences, also something people are drawn to. Your counseling skills and conversational skills give people the feeling that they are the most important thing to you in that moment. This is by no means a bad thing. I just see it as an explanation for the stress in your interpersonal relationships. People often read more into your attention to them than you really mean to offer, leading to an illusion of a deeper relationship than you intend.
So there it is. Do with it what you will. I hope you find this insightful, and that you read into it the love with which it was written.