Anonymous replies

[grim23]

I ordinarily welcome anonymous replies to my lj, because of people who cannot or will not respond, for whatever reason. I often learn much from people who do not feel safe communicating with me in person, by using this medium. I have been thoughtfully taught many lessons by people who know and care enough to throw stones and nerf balls to help me grow and become aware.

So, O Muse and Fury, what do you have to teach me? It's obvious that you have an axe to grind, because of your statement that "[my] particular brand of Patriarcial Man-Over is what has fucked the world so royally", and that the "only way out is to knock off the John Wayne Samari crap and be GENUINE," and, "[h]aving said that I personally believe the Modern American Man is incapable of doing so". Hmmm. I don't expect anyone else but myself to believe in my honor, and not everyone in my life is a damsel in distress, and many of the women (and men) in my life are companions. I do believe that no one should ever be stranded, and we should all help each other out when needed, when we can. I define genuineness as being authentic and sincere, and, had you done more that 'peeked' and actually read this journal closely, it would have been obvious that that is what I am striving to do, contrasting your opinion of male incapability.

You are correct that I did not know who you were, then. I believed you were someone else. I was referring to the other anonymous poster (who I am fairly sure I know who she is) and gently validating her presence in both her and my learning, to others on my list who were concerned with the tone and content, and context of the situation.

Your motivation to post, being "[I] broke the heart of someone I DO care about, and moreso, that ritual disagreement led to the loss of my spiritual community", I am very curious about. I was unaware that I am responsible for your spiritual community, and also unaware that the person whose heart I broke required your intervention. Have you asked that particular person if this is what she wants? Perhaps you should communicate with her.

I continue to welcome anonymous posts. *bow*

Peace,
Grim

Comments

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[(Anonymous)]

a: in my angst I mis-stated. Only person can break a heart is person owning the heart. That she fell into the common trap of a woman who sees beyond a man's bullshit into the true man is really her problem.

b: You got that Fury bit didn't you? Fury = avengers of sins against the Mother. The whole Muse thing was a folly, a happyjoyjoy way to reunite the women who bonded deeply as Furies. By the way I did "go along" and did not share that little bit of info with the women I knew wold drop out. In hindsight I should have just walked away and let 'yall have your ritual invoking Apollo's Mastery Over Women with six fewer Muses.

c: You are not "responsible" for the loss of my community; you were more a catalyst and we all get that role. I've missed it tremendously but I must remind myself that if indeed the core of that community cannot see these patterns of Man Power Over then who needs them.

Under my layer of aging-woman-angst I am much wiser than I act. Maybe as time progresses it will show. Call me when I'm 86.

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[tigresssky.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what any of this is about (i.e. the community or people or subject in question are totally foreign to me) but I have one guenuine question that lays outside of this argument.

Why do you care so much about a community that obviously does not share your same values? I would think it a relief that such a catalyst showed you the real community and the way out.

~TigressSky~

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[(Anonymous)]

nothing is black and white: the community in question is one I had been with for 10 years. In that time one pretty well thinks one is at least in the same book if not on the same page with the rest of the folks.

So of course my spiritual growth has continued in the 2-3 years I've been away. I'm edging back in only socially as I mentioned, because I do not choose to "worship" with a hierarchial group. My own ego plays a role in that: I want to be able to share my insights!

So it's not a "relief," it's been a loss and a mourning. I thought my word was respected. It turns out that, not unlike the Native Americans unable to see the approaching ships from Europe, I was dealing with people to whom the concept was so foreign they couldn't see it at all.

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[(Anonymous)]

Well, I am familiar what you're talking about. It seems that in Grim's spiritual community, the line gets blured between Pagan/Wiccan symbolism and SCA stuff, at least from what I seen of it. It is a real danger to allow ritual to crystalize patters of patriarcy and other complexes in the community member's subconsciouses. Good ritual *should* be working to break up those patterns, IMHO. Apollo (Grim) died almost 3 years ago, and yet, here he is still working on his transformation in the underworld. Underworld years, are strangely different than normal years... when you're in the underworld it seems like a long time in an agonizing prison, then when you emerge transformed, you will look back at that time as if it was a brief sidetrip and wonder at yourself before going through the underworld. Hang in there, Grim.

Glad to see that my post about the "Hero" provided such thought provoking discussion.

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[darklady-produc.livejournal.com]

I may be entirely mistaken, but I believe Grim's "spiritual community" extends beyond the Pagan/Wiccan/SCA stuff. I know I don't dabble in any, although I've done some SCA in my time and, apparently, even had my initial meeting with Himself during one of those ancient outtings.

My understanding is that Grim includes me in his "community" and potentially even on some level in his "spiritual" community. I have no problem with him working on his transformation. I'm still working on mine. I think that's a condition of life. All I personally hope to see in humans transforming is a genuine desire to continue the process, regardless of whether it's currently causing pleasure or pain.

Perhaps part of Grim's challenge is to find an appropriate balance between those ritual heavy systems you mentioned, others that you didn't mention but that I know give him comfort (Buddhism, Taoism, etc.) -- and the more sponanteous and visceral sources of wisdom.

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[(Anonymous)]

You said: "Apollo (Grim) died almost 3 years ago, and yet, here he is still working on his transformation in the underworld."

It sounds to me like, in addition to having an axe to grind, you have/had an expectation of how it looks to you for someone to have completed transformation. I agree with Darklady, transformation is a condition of life. Who are we to judge when another's transformation is complete? If life is one transformation after another, only the person in question can judge whether they are done with one and working on another. Apollo may have died, but since then, Grim in all his archetypes and roles, and even Samuel (!), have had transformations that only he would know about or understand.

I appreciate all you've said, Muse and Fury. It's given me a bone to pick with him myself. And, it's given you an outlet for something you've obviously needed to say for some time. May you heal from this exchange as well.

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[(Anonymous)]

It sounds to me like, in addition to having an axe to grind, you have/had an expectation of how it looks to you for someone to have completed transformation. I agree with Darklady, transformation is a condition of life. Who are we to judge when another's transformation is complete?

I have/had no expectation of Grim to have "completed transformation." I'm 15 years older than he is and don't expect anyone to "complete transformation" at any point in their existence in this life or the next. We're here to evolve.

Actually all my blithering is not so much about Grim as about the condition between men and women in our culture. Grim's focus on Honor and Heroism and the Need to Protect might come from his heart but I believe he (and Many other men in this culture) do not see that these things can create a power-over situation with women that does not allow them equal footing.

If the balance of masculine and feminine - the yin/yang symbol if you will - is truly a goal it needs to be explored without a bunch of men freaking out! Ah in my dreams.