Anonymous replies
Jun. 2nd, 2005 09:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
grim23I ordinarily welcome anonymous replies to my lj, because of people who cannot or will not respond, for whatever reason. I often learn much from people who do not feel safe communicating with me in person, by using this medium. I have been thoughtfully taught many lessons by people who know and care enough to throw stones and nerf balls to help me grow and become aware.
So, O Muse and Fury, what do you have to teach me? It's obvious that you have an axe to grind, because of your statement that "[my] particular brand of Patriarcial Man-Over is what has fucked the world so royally", and that the "only way out is to knock off the John Wayne Samari crap and be GENUINE," and, "[h]aving said that I personally believe the Modern American Man is incapable of doing so". Hmmm. I don't expect anyone else but myself to believe in my honor, and not everyone in my life is a damsel in distress, and many of the women (and men) in my life are companions. I do believe that no one should ever be stranded, and we should all help each other out when needed, when we can. I define genuineness as being authentic and sincere, and, had you done more that 'peeked' and actually read this journal closely, it would have been obvious that that is what I am striving to do, contrasting your opinion of male incapability.
You are correct that I did not know who you were, then. I believed you were someone else. I was referring to the other anonymous poster (who I am fairly sure I know who she is) and gently validating her presence in both her and my learning, to others on my list who were concerned with the tone and content, and context of the situation.
Your motivation to post, being "[I] broke the heart of someone I DO care about, and moreso, that ritual disagreement led to the loss of my spiritual community", I am very curious about. I was unaware that I am responsible for your spiritual community, and also unaware that the person whose heart I broke required your intervention. Have you asked that particular person if this is what she wants? Perhaps you should communicate with her.
I continue to welcome anonymous posts. *bow*
Peace,
Grim
So, O Muse and Fury, what do you have to teach me? It's obvious that you have an axe to grind, because of your statement that "[my] particular brand of Patriarcial Man-Over is what has fucked the world so royally", and that the "only way out is to knock off the John Wayne Samari crap and be GENUINE," and, "[h]aving said that I personally believe the Modern American Man is incapable of doing so". Hmmm. I don't expect anyone else but myself to believe in my honor, and not everyone in my life is a damsel in distress, and many of the women (and men) in my life are companions. I do believe that no one should ever be stranded, and we should all help each other out when needed, when we can. I define genuineness as being authentic and sincere, and, had you done more that 'peeked' and actually read this journal closely, it would have been obvious that that is what I am striving to do, contrasting your opinion of male incapability.
You are correct that I did not know who you were, then. I believed you were someone else. I was referring to the other anonymous poster (who I am fairly sure I know who she is) and gently validating her presence in both her and my learning, to others on my list who were concerned with the tone and content, and context of the situation.
Your motivation to post, being "[I] broke the heart of someone I DO care about, and moreso, that ritual disagreement led to the loss of my spiritual community", I am very curious about. I was unaware that I am responsible for your spiritual community, and also unaware that the person whose heart I broke required your intervention. Have you asked that particular person if this is what she wants? Perhaps you should communicate with her.
I continue to welcome anonymous posts. *bow*
Peace,
Grim
ok fine
Date: 2005-06-06 08:29 am (UTC)As to the Spiritual community - anon above, thanks for validation. The group in question does not operate via consensus and cannot see what Starhawk refers to in "Truth or Dare" where she speaks of unlearning behavior patterns:
The fundamental right of consensus is for all people to be able to express themselves in their own words and of their own will. The fundamental responsiblity of consensus is to assure others of their right to speak and be heard. Since our society provides very little training in these areas, we have to unlearn many behavior patterns in order to practice good consensus process (see "Overcoming Oppressive Behavior," in this handbook). Consensus does not mean that everyone thinks that the decision made is the most efficient way to accomplish something, or that they are absolutely sure it will work. What it does mean is that in coming to that decision, no one felt that her or his position on the matter wasn't considered carefully. Hopefully, everyone will think it is the best decision; this often happens because, when consensus works properly, collective intelligence does come up with better solutions than could individuals.
I should have walked away; should=I wish I had the balls to do it.
Samuel, my humble apologies for using you as scapegoat. You were catalyst for me for sure. I would welcome a conversation if it is at all possible, I would really LOVE to believe that it is possible for a man in the year 2005 to actually begin to see where his behavior patterns are running counter to the progression of the human race.
Re: ok fine
Date: 2005-06-06 08:15 pm (UTC)I wish you the best in communicating with this spiritual community you mention. Maybe you should share this with them as well. Of course, the group using consensus as a method of decision making first must agree that consensus is the way they want to make decisions.
Re: ok fine
Date: 2005-06-06 10:15 pm (UTC)Soooooooooooooooooo social gatherings maybe, ritual probably not something I'll jump up to do with them unless I know one of the women in the community wrote it. Sexist? Probably. As I see it the scale is pretty bloody unbalanced one way so we gotta load up on the other to get to center.
My $0.2.
Starhawk's "Truth or Dare" and "The Twelve Swans" both have excellent passages on consensus building. Also, a Reclaiming group is forming in Corvallis; it's an intersting construct to spirituality. I like that there is no hierarchy and that ritual is consensual and often spontaneous.