Community Forum
Apr. 22nd, 2005 10:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
grim23OK. It has been pointed out that my journal has become, "that place where [I] go to convalesce by having the majority of your posting community fawn all over [me], tend to [my] wounds, stroke [my] ego and tell [me] what [I] want to hear"... but, as my broccoli friends point out, what would be the fun in that?
Right now, I'm about learning, especially about the not-so-pleasant aspects of me. I need to learn about how to interact with others better and deal with how people really think and feel about me. Honesty, not fawning. Community forum. No filters.
I've just posted a snapshot personality test, and my astrology chart, giving ample suggestions for ways I do and do not work within the Universe, not to discount your own experiences. Apparently there are those who do not feel comfortable in other forums, so...here it is. Fire away, both barrels. I will not judge you, or even reply, other than to say thank you for the input, unless you request it. I will consider everything that's written, and try to incorporate it into my future Life.
Thank you for your time.
Right now, I'm about learning, especially about the not-so-pleasant aspects of me. I need to learn about how to interact with others better and deal with how people really think and feel about me. Honesty, not fawning. Community forum. No filters.
I've just posted a snapshot personality test, and my astrology chart, giving ample suggestions for ways I do and do not work within the Universe, not to discount your own experiences. Apparently there are those who do not feel comfortable in other forums, so...here it is. Fire away, both barrels. I will not judge you, or even reply, other than to say thank you for the input, unless you request it. I will consider everything that's written, and try to incorporate it into my future Life.
Thank you for your time.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Furious… Fuming… and Disgusted…
Date: 2005-04-25 09:42 am (UTC)And just in case I am not being clear enough above… as myGirl would say… now I begin my rant! ~
It has been my earnest belief that because of my great love for him, all of Grim’s friends are deserving of my utmost respect and admiration simply by having earned his friendship. But current behavior is causing me to question the level of respect truly deserved and the level of friendship certain of his friends are exhibiting. It is quite true that a friend will tell you when you have broccoli in your teeth… HOWEVER… a TRUE friend will do so by gently leaning over, whispering in your ear in a very discreet manner, shielding you physically from the sight of others, giving you an opportunity to remove the offending green vegetable in privacy, with discretion, compassion and consideration for your feelings, your vulnerability to the situation, and potential embarrassment… a TRUE friend does not announce it publicly over the loudspeaker while pointing and bringing you to pubic shame!!!
As for Grim’s personal faults and flaws, his use of power dynamics, and his tendencies to sometimes be condescending… while it may seem in his LJ, that I am one of his “fawning adorers”… I am quite capable and quite open with him personally in discussing my own observations of his character and mannerisms… but I do so PRIVATELY.
I have, since this began, gone back and read his LJ’s and the myriad replies… and since recently made examples of his so-called condescension actually INCLUDED instances of interactions with me… I think I can speak with some authority about those examples used, since I personally am aware of the context in which it was spoken… and I did NOT take it as condescending at all that he was “unsure that I was aware of what I had gifted him”… for that is exactly what he was… unsure that I understood what it meant to him… because we had not had an opportunity to communicate more fully or develop that understanding. Sorry guys, nothing condescending about it…
And frankly, having re-read his journal, and the comments, particularly those made by the same friends on the side of judgment now… and the times when I noticed the MOST condescension and arrogance and judgment were in YOUR comments to him. Not in his entries. I am of a spirituality and life-path that is possibly as far from Christianity as it is humanly possible to go… but yet am an avid student of Christian history and philosophy, and can easily out-quote probably most of Grim’s Christian friends on their own Book… and when I read all of this, and my fury and protective shielding nature was awakened one thought came to my mind, and I hope all of you who call yourselves Grim's friends and then attack your friend so publicly when he has made himself vulnerable will think on it carefully!
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
For it is not in “seeing” the broccoli in someone’s teeth that makes you a friend… and it is NOT in the “telling” them of the broccoli… the mark of TRUE friendship is in HOW you tell them of the broccoli… and HOW you allow them to deal with that broccoli with compassion and in a spirit of true love and protection…
And considering that Grim is not only allowing all of you to attack him in public forum, without retribution, but in a spirit of openness, vulnerability, and wishing to better himself… he is proving himself to be a much TRUER friend to all of you, then frankly you are being to him.
And not that it matters to any of you… but those of you who have behaved in this manner… have lost my respect, whether you remain his friends or not.
~Aurora WindDancer
Silly Rant (was: Re: Furious… Fuming… and Disgusted…)
Date: 2005-04-25 10:50 am (UTC)Perhaps prior to writing such a rant, you should have read Samuel's Original Post? The one that states:
Right now, I'm about learning, especially about the not-so-pleasant aspects of me. I need to learn about how to interact with others better and deal with how people really think and feel about me. Honesty, not fawning. Community forum. No filters.
Since Grim specifically asked for publicly posted criticism, on what grounds are you climbing on your high horse to castigate people who are doing exactly what Grim asked them to do in exactly the way and forum he asked them to respond in?
I suggest you owe both Grim and all who posted that you so roundly criticized for doing as he asked an apology, and I also suggest you try reading (with comprehension) the Original Post before you go off into left field with more inappropriate rants.
Re: Silly Rant (was: Re: Furious… Fuming… and Disgusted…)
Date: 2005-04-25 11:07 am (UTC)I DID read WITH comprehension the entire original post from Grim, with admiration and respect for him... and a deep understanding of the personal strength and willingness to tackle his own "stuff" and allow his "friends" and opportunity to be open with him and publically criticize him. Of Grim I am immensely proud!
Of you, and I have no idea who you are, or what your relationship is to him... and of others who have so quickly risen to the occasion to take his offer and give him a swift and public floggin... I remain disgusted. And I am certainly NOT alone in my disgust.
If Grim needs, desires, or in anyway lets me know I owe him an apology and have crossed a line with him by letting all of you know how despicable I think you and what you are doing are (whether he asked you to or not...)... then he shall have my apology with all heart-felt sincerity, for I am incapable of intentionally causing him harm, and will be abjectly sorrowful if I have done so in my protective wrath at you.
And if he asks me to apologize to you... then I will, in honor and respect to him... whether I think you deserve it or not.
And I may be on a "high horse"... but I would rather be harshly criticized and mocked for being true to my heart and treating my beloved friend with true compassion, and insisting and demanding that others do the same... then for being an insensitive prick, which is exactly what some of you are being.
If Grim is unhappy with me, then Grim may scold me. My Dominant is in full agreement with me, so I have no concerns there.
Re: Silly Rant (was: Re: Furious… Fuming… and Disgusted…)
Date: 2005-04-25 11:25 am (UTC)"Apparently there are those who do not feel comfortable in other forums, so...here it is."
None of this would have been necessary... had those of you with these observations and issues, and lack of sensitivity or compassion, had the personal strength of character and integrity to speak to Grim privately, personally, as real friends would. And just because he is giving you the opportunity... acknowledging your inability to discuss these issue with him in more appropriate manners, and allowing you your inappropriate behavior... does not make your taking him up on it right or appropriate.
A true friend would have said "Wow... he's going through something... I wonder if he is ok? I wonder if he needs someone to talk to? I wonder what has brought this about? I should check on him... give him a call, send him an e-mail... let him know I care... and then maybe talk to him personally, in the spirit of friendship, about my own concerns or observations of things he may wish to work on improving."...
Did you do that? I doubt it... you don't seem the kind to think that way. And as of last night, I was the only one who had, who saw my friend struggling, and thought maybe he might need some support to go along with all this "honesty"! So kiss off.
Obviously you completely missed the entire point of my rant, but rather became defensive, unwilling to even acknowledge the "beam in your own eye"
no subject
Date: 2005-04-25 12:31 pm (UTC)Aurora, you made an excellent about discretion on the part of "brocolli friends" - how in reality we ought to lean over quietly and whisper rather than voice it over the microphone. And when Grim pointed this out to me, I immediately sent him a private email asking on which topic would he like to further the discussion. That email has not been answered.
Which begs the question: Grim? Why not?
An apology to you JIC...
Date: 2005-04-25 02:29 pm (UTC)I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but thank you for acknowledging me, and the issues with maturity. To you, I give respect, and my apology
*bows*
~Aurora
An aside to Aurora
Date: 2005-04-25 04:21 pm (UTC)Your other problem is Grim asked for comments. You have decreed that any comments that are not fawning must, ipso facto, be personal attacks.
Please note I made no personal attacks against Grim. I merely provided, in language carefully both polite and neutral, as requested, constructive criticisms based on what I have observed of his behaviours.
Nor do you know me well enough to comment on my honour. I can only assume from your rants and your inability to accept constructive criticism (not attacks) of a friend (even when requested by that friend) that you are not necessarily a person I'd like to meet, nor one with whom I'd share a dojo.
My respect for Grim does not extend to you.
I also note we have not heard from Grim himself. Samuel, about time for you to chime in with comments, please.
Re: An aside to Aurora
Date: 2005-04-25 05:53 pm (UTC)My apologies for not waiting 24 hours...
Anonymous - since you give not your name nor identify yourself
Grim asked for criticism, Yes he did, and he needs that feedback. Grim opened himself up to vulnerability and left himself open for attack, not an easy thing to do. One would hope that those closest to him would realize that.
You may not feel you made personal attacks on Grim, others may read it/feel it differently. Once calmed I read your comments again, and in some ways they were quite eloquent and even somewhat lovely. Your comments, in combination with a somewhat steady rain of these types of personal "critiques" given in a public forum rather than privately and personally as it should be between friends (In my not-so-humble opinion), certainly have value in teaching and lessons for Grim...
It was not my intention to stop his learning, or the critiquing, but rather to protect and defend a loved one from those who seem oblivious to his vulnerability at the moment, and were seemingly very willing to take his personal flaws, faults, weaknesses, and warts... and lay them out there for all the world to see... without considering the harm they may be doing first.
FYI, I have already spoken with him, and made my apologies.
I do not care if you respect me or not... being one who would kill or die to protect a loved one... my only concern is for him, and that you respect him. If you do, and he is fine with you, then I apologize. Standing up for what one believes is right does not often win a popularity contest, and I don't really care what you think of me, I know my worth.
As for your honour, and my questioning of it... you are right, I don't know you... and you still hide behind no name... but I do not question your honour as a person... I questioned the honor of the action. Again, perhaps not my place to do so.
I also question the wisdom and sensitivity of one who would use Grim's first name in such an open public unfiltered, uncensored format, not once but twice. I've never seen any of his friends do that before. Perhaps he does not mind that... not my place to say if he would or would not... but I do question it.
Perhaps it is best we do not meet... for I am one who will fly in the face of anyone I perceive may bring harm or attack one I care for, especially when they have allowed themselves to be vulnerable to it. It may not be wise, but it is loyal.
Two more tiny cents about Anon
Date: 2005-04-25 09:15 pm (UTC)Aurora, that was very big of you to offer up apologies, particularly to an anonymous party. Not that you need my approval, but you certainly have earned my respect. *Bows* My I "friend" you on my LJ?
Wow... I hate to be the person who adds one more thing to this! (Re: Two more tiny cents about Anon
Date: 2005-04-26 11:20 am (UTC)I'm not sure if the Anon I went off on and Aria are the same or if that is the other Anon, I can't unravel it anymore... but whoever that was... they were the lucky "last straw" so to speak... and probably unaware of the history leading up to this...
I may have overreacted, but in my heart, nothing about how I feel about all this has changed, just that my temper has cooled after talking to Grim and seeing another perspective, and understanding his "why" of this request.
What I was seeing, was someone I love, being brow-beaten by his "friends" unknown to me, for reasons I could not fathom, and not in manners I personally could respect by being public about it... so I... (yes that's right I, me, over here, loudmouthed one) Judged the "broccoli" crowd and anyone who seemed to be jumping on that bandwagon...
and I got righteously furious and protective, of seeing my loved one standing there in front of us all, naked, unshielded, no armour, hurting, trying to work through his "stuff", vulnerable... and willing to take the beating... feeling proud of him, but angry at those who in my eyes were "kicking him while he was down, and pour salt and lemon on his wounds"...
So.. I ranted. Not an excuse, I make no excuses... but I felt you all deserved an explanation of my behavior.
Grim pointed out to me that anger and rage are all about fear... so what are you afraid of Aurora?
I was afraid of seeing him hurt... and seeing his newfound willingness to be vulnerable squashed forever, cut short before it even bloomed...
I am sorry for ranting... and I do apologize to Anon (whichever one it was)... I saw you as an unknown attacker, and just started swinging... when clearly, you love Grim just as much as me... probably more, and longer.
And now, I'm done...
*bows to all*
~Aurora
Re: Wow... I hate to be the person who adds one more thing to this! (Re: Two more tiny cents about A
Date: 2005-04-26 11:49 am (UTC)Re: ipso facto
Date: 2005-04-25 11:12 pm (UTC)Thanks,
Respectfully pinkk
Re: ipso facto oops wrong place please still receive this
Date: 2005-04-25 11:14 pm (UTC)Accepted
Date: 2005-04-25 07:45 pm (UTC)Respect honors both the giver and the recipient. Thank you for yours, and you have with this grace earned mine.
Spasibo.
Re: bratt pup PROUD & Stroking you sweet Lady
Date: 2005-04-25 12:31 pm (UTC)My truths of flesh are most vividly seen by those lost to own self the desire to touch themselves. Grim when I said you had alot of guts to gather such strong women around you ~ this may have been why I quit doing the learn from the ladies around us both. Sometimes there are just to many emotions and reactions Not the quick glance that may bring forth such silly a discussion, may find deeper a feeling was that when so long felt themselves desire to push an issue they may have finally quit being afraid and taken this to be a place atleast feel heard.
Some only find you this way or that when in teacher or friend you arent both always? That seems rather shallow the glimpse allowed. Never have I felt disconnection to all you are ~ that is comparing your spirit to topdressing on the farm. just slather you up with BS of what feels like layer of friend isn't as nice as your teacher! All that really says to me is that some of your friends aren't able to accept you without being shitty because they just feel "I hurt, its your fault"
deep heart with my grumpy bratt at the moment ~ sick pup a true (pardon me, sweet Lady)BITCH ~ is heated so I face this within my own home and from yours! Mother (again pardon) Freaking oh FUCK YOU all with no lube! deeper than you imagine I am, I'll bore you while he's waiting for the ratings ~ Good Luck I saw a 9 butt I am inverted alot so 6 could mean still ranked if is your need. I hate being rude butt not when feel my friends are being attacked in a backhanded slap from souls just needing attention ~ oh Goody my reason has arrived!
Today as watched sun rise, laughing he snored, warm from your admittance, felt spine tingles & beat began I was not familiar with, now I recognize it ~ passionate is a primal reaction & I'm proud all your friends so primed have been so polite, yet good to see how eyes wide to you look also around you. My Lumpy was told by ex drums of no more learning that I was whore gift to HIM,(well we both know I am its ok) but it was then thrown as nails in flesh to bring forth only blood ~ he claimed the gift me was done even with knowing he was letting sacrifice of the music & band they were So Lumpy got pussy like Yoko ~ Oh No the pussy was surely all HIS from then owned never tarnished the truth of what we are for each other ~ butt pussy shit like this crippled self growths. Dumb Ass just wiggling my *butt* never am I seen, carry in or out, gear, liquid, Hell hon every time I drive I pay for a ride with a blowjob because its my righteous choice & sweetest the eyes burn brite and my body reacts to all growing in guitar sounds as I choose to slip back & allow hips to grind nips to harden & smile fill my heart! There was another thought I used to let run me cold at that point ~ Yoko Ono was not my worth or my own self the reason for their lack of his band keeping it together. It was the fear of his drummers view that haunted my heart, for 6 of the past 7 years I've spent time only believing I had been the part of the cause! i am modest mostly, mostly ~ know I hadn't been whoring around LRC long enough to be reason they split. Silly lil' girls don't forget & he meant no harm teasing just Yoko ~ flood of bratt came out & no stopping self made face ~ thanks Daddy HIM he sees it now ~ Royal Rage growled , proud you already know his monster WOW force with power to see spirit so ~ opened the can found worms 6 yrs patience & true love held together by lots of fucks ~ 1 fool crapped on view of self & it mattered, not enough ~ held my being as yoko ono in some twist, also spewed forth to his that he HATES (my)Brian & only wants (my)Lumpy, feels Brian can die! 6 years before we spoke angry of such BS ~ felt from such BULLSHIT thickly spread atop skin for in truth we hope our freinds would only try helping! ok more nyquil and leave your journal!
Re: Furious… Fuming… and Disgusted…
Date: 2005-04-25 05:51 pm (UTC)I have privately attempted to discuss with Grim the issues I have with his behavior more times than I can count in the years I've known him. None of my concerns were ever addressed in any way, shape, or form. Nothing was ever his fault -- is was the fault of the chaos which he conveniently allows to run his life so that he does not have to take responsibility for himself, his choices, his actions or inactions. It is for this reason that he no longer plays an active role in my life although there will always be a place for him in my heart.
From my perspective, until he is confronted en masse by all those who care about him but dislike aspects of his behavior, Grim will not make any changes.
Re: Just to Keep Things Straight...
Date: 2005-04-25 07:03 pm (UTC)Didn't want anyone to get confused :-)
AnonyMoose the First
Head is swimming
Date: 2005-04-25 09:31 pm (UTC)Re: Head is swimming
Date: 2005-04-25 09:49 pm (UTC)I do not have an LJ account and I am relatively certain that I do not know any of the other posters, save one. I am also fairly certain that Grim knows who I am based on the comments I made and the way I phrased them. He's heard them before... I see no reason for the rest of you to know my name since none of you know me and after all, these comments are for Grim and his personal growth, yes?
But...if you need a name, call me Aria.
Re: Head is swimming
Date: 2005-04-25 09:56 pm (UTC)Re: Head is swimming
Date: 2005-04-25 10:10 pm (UTC)No. I have made three previous posts (now four including this one): the three signed Aria and the one timestamped 17:51.
The ones made earlier belong to AnonyMoose the First.
Aria
Re: Head is swimming
Date: 2005-04-25 10:14 pm (UTC)