What I already know about how I communicate

[grim23]

(1) I am very Japanese in my speaking style. Veiled meanings, double meanings, twilight language, and suggestions rather than clear directions. I prefer others to figure out what I mean, rather than just saying it. I usually only do this on those who know me more than an acquaintance, and who I know get it.

(2) I struggle constantly, especially in my professional communication with colleagues, to use less acronyms. ("The PCP thinks CBT for her PTSD, coupled with a SSRI and an HIPPA ROI to her PMHNP, would increase her BDI and GAF scores.")

(3) I often prefer to listen first, and speak less. I take in a lot from others, and distill that and other experiences, and come out with two or three lines.

(4) I am a Keeper of Secrets. I have a lot of things people have told me in confidence, and that often is a filter that reduces what I say. I will not betray a confidence.

(5) Neo-Freudian drives (sex and work) often provide the ego structure for my words, and are often the most prevalent conversations people remember me having with them. (I recently offered to help someone dress after a recent surgery that made dressing difficult, and was asked to stop making sexual innuendoes---and when I protested that I was simply offering to help, she said that I always made innuendoes to her, and she didn't realize I was trying to be helpful. Although I realize she was in a post-op mindstate, I still took that in as a lesson for me.)

Comments?

Comments

[darklady-produc.livejournal.com]

I think you may be less "very Japanese" in your speaking style than you are wishful that your speaking style might be Japanese instead of merely filtered.

It feels to me like you have a difficult time trusting and thus you don't always reveal yourself. Are you sure you know who you are, so you can reveal that person... or do you mostly know who you wish you were or hope you may become?

Listening is good. Speaking less is good. Knowing or at least suspecting the truth so that your words are worth speaking (and hearing) is way good.

On the other hand, we don't talk much anymore, so I may be working with old or misinterpreted information.

[grim23]

Hmmm. You may be right. Another friend gave me the Japanese concept, but 'filtered' may be better.

No, I'm not exactly sure who I am. I'm not even sure I know who I wish to become. I'm working on it, though.

Thank you.

[missbethiebee.livejournal.com]

My only comment is in reference to #1. Veiled meanings etc. often make for difficult communications at best and miscommunications at worst. Why not just come right out and say what you mean? Why lay the burden on the rest of us to try to understand you? Why do you do this more with people you are close to and most importantly, why do you assume that they get what you mean if you have not been direct? And do you really want to take the chance with these people who are close to you that they might misunderstand and here you think they understood perfectly and come to find out later that they didn't?

If I was a wise person I would say that people who have complicated forms of communication, especially in close personal relationships, have trouble with true intimacy. And that maybe such a person has a need to be unclear with what they are communicating to avoid responsibility for failure if failure occurs.

But my form of communication is often to blurt out the first thing that comes into my mind so....

stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

??

[grim23]

You have a good set of points, especially about true intimacy. If these are my friends, why complicate and burden them? And, I'd rather my friends understand me.

Back to fear of failure. Again. *sigh* Thank you.

Love and care about you,
Grim

[missbethiebee.livejournal.com]

A wise man once told me that a warrior's goal is not to be without fear. A warrior's goal is to overcome fear. It seems to me that to be without fear would mean the end of the journey and that would truly be a sad thing, because what kind of warrior has no Path to walk? The overcomming of fear seems to me to be a continuous journey and therefore, a blessing.

just sayin'

[grim23]

Boy, I've got to meet this wise man one of these days. *smile*

Yes, a Warrior's path to overcoming fear never ends. Someimes, however, I get deluded into thinking I have come further than I have really traveled. Yes, this is a blessing...although you'd think I might occasionally get another lesson. *grin*

STILL love and care about you... just sayin'

Grim

intimacy and friendship and understanding

[fairiegodmother.livejournal.com]

Yes, you would prefer that your friends understand you. Friends would prefer that, too. It is easier to maintain distance, believing it'll keep us from being hurt, but doing so is just as likely to keep us from being healed.

Friends know us, see us, and they love us. With all our bullshit, our defenses, our blind spots, our strengths, our talents, individual quirks, shadow stuff and our vulnerabilities, those people LOVE us.

That's the miracle of friendship, and the reason to open yourself to intimacy in trust rather than guarding against it in fear. So much love it will leave you awestruck, humbled, and speechless.

Friends know us AND love us. It blows me away every time.

Re: intimacy and friendship and understanding

[grim23]

Yes. That seems to be exactly what I have to learn, although it would be nice if they had less fear to cope with...that may be why I had to go across the country, so that I could figure that out.

I've never been one for the easy way, as soon as I'm aware there's a better way. I'm working on it. :.

Thank you for your friendship.

[aurorawyndancer.livejournal.com]

For #1 -- this aspect has been the #1 thing that has driven me crazy about you... a person we love (who shall remain nameless) recently summed it up well by saying "Grim was talking... but what's the point, cause who knows what the F*** he's saying anyway"

Why bother communicating at all if you communicate that way... because that is NOT communication. Communication involves two Points - the sender and the receiver. But if the receiver has not a clue what the sender is saying then no communication has happened. Just alot of wasted energy, and usually some frustration. Personally, and you know I love you, but I think that DarkLady, and the other commentor hit the nail on the head... it's a combination of Need for Control, Manipulation, and Fear of Intimacy/Lack of Trust, that creates this aspect of your communication style. If you can control and manipulate the information, and the receiver of the information by having that control... then you don't have to deal with fears. Plus I think there is an element of power trip involved, where you get off feeling important because you are "in the know" about "everything"... and others have to deal with the small veiled pieces you drop.

As for #3 - you do listen... sometimes. But I think you like to talk ALOT more than you realize. You can talk a person's ear off for hours, and not tell them a damn thing in the whole process. But you are also good at listening, and helping people find within themselves the answers they seek. As long as it is about the other person... or about some nonsensical, pseudoreality, superficial layer or aspect of you - you can go on for hours. But once the communication gets anywhere close to YOU, to reality, or to your heart... that's where the #1 piece comes back in.

As for #5... Duh! I'm not sure I've ever spent an hour with you where an innuendo wasn't involved.

But this is not a Grim-bashing field day hun... cause I already know all this about you, and you know a whole lot more (and worse) stuff about me... and I love you for who you are, warts and all. I only post my observations because you seemed to want input from those who know ya for your growth.

If not, well then you know where the delete button is, and I'll still love ya.

[grim23]

#1. Hmmmm. Please ask this person to reveal themselves so I may make amends.
You are probably right about my motivation. Thank you. I'd rather have clearer communication with my friends, and everyone.

#3. Yes. I AM discovering I can tend to go on and on. It's harder for me to talk about myself on an personal level.

#5. I'll work on that, and try to communicate without that coloring our conversation.

Thank you very much for the input. I appreciate your comments very much.

Grim

[jic]

kudos for taking the step
kudos for examining yourself
kudos for acknowledging lessons learned
kudos for opening yourself up to comments

I think 1 has been beaten to death covered well enough by parties who likely know you better than I. Suffice to say, I have felt that frustration.

As for 2 -- every group has a jargon. The jargon I use in communicating with other slashers obfuscates my communication with non-fen. Everyone shares the need to consider their audience in any form of communication.

3 & 4 -- it's a chicken and egg question. Are you like this by profession, or is your profession chosen because you are like this?

5 - This is most likely driving the brevity in our correspondence. I have no interest in sex (at least on a personal involvement level), and there are severe limits on what you can share about work. I do not share a fascination with things Eastern; neither philosophy or martial art (my interest in combat is not in the grace or principle, but in 'how can I make a person out-of-commission as quickly and efficiently as possible' - not many who take the arts seriously are willing to cater to that).

And when I get around to posting my post-con report, I suspect more about me that lends itself to the past difficulty in our relationship will be revealed.

[grim23]

Thank you. I forget to consider my audience, and presume that everyone has the same experiences, filters, and knowledge and training that I have had, and speak and write that way.

I am unsure at this point whether I communicate this way because of my profession, or whether I chose my profession because of this. I'll eventually puzzle it out---but I'm a bit late to choose another profession. Perhaps it'll be altered by that conclusion, though.

What I don't want, however, is brevity of communication between us. I am interested in what intersests we do share, and I am looking forward to you post-con report.

Thank you again.

Grim

[sienna555.livejournal.com]

My my...all this after only 24 hours under the assignment??? I wonder how you're gonna be after a week of this...

My questions to you: What do all of these things have in common? What prompted you to behave that way in the first place? That is the key here...

#1. Many times we sidestep obvious things that would hurt people's feelings. But being indirect is only moderately above saying "yeah your ass looks big in that outfit." Find the middle ground; there is ALWAYS a way to make your point directly. As for people's hurt feelings, well...how can you control for that all the time without being indirect all the time?

#2. Take the middle ground on acronyms, too. TV is laziness. How much harder is television to say? However, when it comes to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...

#3. Listening is good, if that is indeed what you are doing. Most of the time, when people think they are listening, they are truly just thinking of the next clever thing they would like to say themselves. Check it out; are you listening, or are you being clever?

#4. No such thing as secrets, only inappropriate information. "Keeping secrets" blocks that chakra like nothing else. However, there are confidences that one must keep in order to do what you do (or what I do). The key is True, Kind, Necessary. Sometimes, it's just not necessary to speak these things. And many times it's not kind either. Inappropriate information just doesn't get out; no need to block true communication.

#5. Shut down those two bottom chakras once in a while and see what happens to your "innuendos."

[grim23]

I think fear of intimacy/trust, and a bit of subconscious need for power to cover my fear, and the fact that I didn't take the time to realize not everyone has the same experiences/reading/training/blockages as me, drives most of my way I communicate.

I'm working on the middle ground, and not being 'clever'. True, Kind, and Necessary versus secrets is a wonderful lesson; thank you.

Yeah. The innuendos have disappeared once I took 'em down and started operating at a higher level. Big surprise.

I'll keep working on it.

[sienna555.livejournal.com]

If you think about it, NOBODY has the same experiences or filters as anyone else, yet this society still survives--even THRIVES--despite this diversity. We can still communicate with Honesty and Integrity, and make our point. So how is that accomplished?

A great big pat on the back for all the good work you're doing. It seems you're as good a student as I always thought you'd be.

And a wink for Tam, too; thanks for the compliment...:-)

[grim23]

By becoming aware, and constantly working on being honest and having integrity, and opening ourselves up to feedback from others. Connection with the One.

Yeah. Tam is pretty amazing, isn't she? :>

we all love you

[tamarta.livejournal.com]

I think you've gotten some amazing, very wise, feedback so far from everyone who knows you and cares about you deeply. Because I am one of these people, I also feel the need to say my piece. In response to #5, when you do talk in double/veiled meanings, can you blame people for assuming there is more to it when you ARE just trying to help, even if you are very clear that this is what you are trying to do? I do love you, but I drive myself crazy with trying to find the double meaning when there is none, or just taking you at face value when you are actually trying to tell me something in a subtle, roundabout way. Consistency....everyone needs it....

That said and done, I greatly value the fact that you have been working hard on being clear and direct in your communication with me. As you know, a friend of ours commented about how wonderful it was to see you as YOU, with guards down and chakras open. I look forward to seeing more of this, and wish I could have YOU all the time, as opposed to the veils you often stay behind. I do love the fact you are working on being YOU and being more real, and it is noticed by those you do open up to.

THIS is a great assignment...it takes great courage to do it. You must have a wise teacher (a smile to the teacher here).

Re: we all love you

[grim23]

Thank you. I especially want to be clear and consistent when I communicate with you. :>

I will try to not give you any more double meanings. I know you learn best with just face value when we communicate.


Thank you. It's time to work on having the very best communication I can, because the rewards will far exceed the work I'm doing.

I'm blessed to have many great teachers in my life, including you.

Love you very much,
Grim

[eurotopia.livejournal.com]

I usually only do this on those who know me more than an acquaintance, and who I know get it.

1) It appears that even those who know you as more than an acquaintance--are not getting it. I know I rarely do. So much easier to have a "in the moment connection" with you when not trying to decipher meanings.

3) One of my biggest frustrations with our communication has been that I feel you do not listen to me. Listening skills deteriorate without even knowing. I know I found out I was not as good a listener as I thought when I took a class on listening skills.

4)I have experienced with you "selective keeping of secrets". I honestly believe that you would not betray a confidence, knowingly. I think Sienna is right on about this one--unblock that and move energy from necessary and kind places.

5) In one sentence---Your sexual innuendo is confusing intentions. It has and will cause misrepresentation of your feelings. Maybe you need to clarify where this is coming from and what need it fills for you.

You are brave and I admire your willingness to share and be vulnerable. Much love and energy sent to you.

[grim23]

1) Yes, it does seems so. As I said to Sienna, I think fear of intimacy/trust, and a bit of subconscious need for power to cover my fear, and the fact that I didn't take the time to realize not everyone has the same experiences/reading/training/blockages as me, drives most of my way I communicate.

3) Thank you. I'll work on listening to you and others, better.

4) Thank you, again. True, kind, and neccesary are far better criterion, and there was/is a blockage there.

5) I do not want confusing intentions, and misinterpretations of feelings. I'm working on this.

I appreciate your courage in return.

Grim

Wow

[voluptasia.livejournal.com]

So I'm doing a bit of catching up on LJ today... this took a lot of time to read thoughtfully, but it was worth it. Thank you for posting this, for putting out there so clearly what you're seeing about yourself and working on, and thank you to your wise group of friends for giving you the truth about yourself, and the understanding that they love you anyway. I agree with everything your wise friends have said up to this point, so I won't repeat it all... plus, it was said far better than I could have anyway. I look forward to re-meeting the Real Samuel, who I've seen a few times here and there (maybe more often than most), many times over the course of the next year.

Much love to you, my friend.

- Mango.

Re: Wow

[grim23]

Thank YOU for creating the relationship and person that you are, that led me to growing. A lot of who I am, the Real Samuel, is directly related to you.

I'm looking forward to reconnecting with you at the Burn and my birthday. I miss you.

Love in return,
Grim (soon with a new name that will suit me much more)

[tigresssky.livejournal.com]

I didnt see this until now. Since I wasnt keeping up with the muriad of responses mine my become redundant.

1 - I step up as the person who said something along the lines of, "I was talking with Grim and I think this is what he meant but it was Grim so who really knows what he is fucking saying anyway." And then we laughed, because it was a joke. It was a joke and true. And, as someone who finds herself having MUCH (perhaps starlingly so) in common with you I am certain that I do know what you are speaking of most the time (veiled meanings and all).

Yet I dont run on assumptions well and so I push you a lot to be clear with me. I guess wrong on purpose. I make you put away the "Confuscious" you are when you try to work through problems with me and just tell me what you see.

2 - As for your acronyms, well, you use them a lot when we talk and I know a lot of them so I find myself less confused. Yet I am not in your profession and you use them with me, so, I assume someone less enlightened as myself (and I am no Buddha) may get utterlty confuzzled when you use them with them.

As for your jargon outside of acronyms, sometimes I feel talked down too when you pull out your psychology quotes and try and solve my problems for me. Sometimes all we may need is someone to listen and some of us even manage to forget your profession and look at you as a friend when we talk with you about problems we are having. We dont all expect you to fix everything. Sometimes a hug goes a lot further than a "know-it-all" response from your psychology text.

3 - This could be an observation purely from me, but when we talk I find you talking more than listening. Yet, I also find you sharing stuff with me that is personal even though I watch you trying your damndest not to. I find you trying so hard to know exactly what I am talking/feeling/going through that you spend your time analyzing me through you and this leads us back to the second part of my response in number 2.

4 - I dont think that secrets should filter your responses. If someone is brugeoning into territory you really cant discuss for a fear of secrecy then tell them, "hey Id rather not talk about this" or "hey I really cant talk about this." Do not forgo truth for secrecy.

5 - I think the problem exsists that because you RARELY say what you mean everything you say is taken with a "what the hell does he really mean" sense of discovery. This is why people may see you as being a constant barrage of innuendo. If you were to be more open and honest up front then when you made innuendo's they would be more obvious and in turn not be the natural expected out come of every conversation with you.

Damn this seems harsh. I dont know that I could put myself out here like this. Kudos for you oh Warrior.

~TigressSky~

[grim23]

(1) I owe you an apology, then for being Confucius-like. I'm very sorry. I will work hard to make sure it doesn't happen again.

(2) I don't want anyone to feel talked down to. Sometimes, I think you are requesting advice or help, and I am trying to help. I'll work on listening more.

(3) I'll work on speaking less, as well.

(4) You are very right.

(5) I'm working hard on saying and acting exactly what I mean, in a measured way. No more innuendo.

Thank you for the kudos, and thank you very much for the comments. This is what I need to learn.

Grim